Sun 8 Mar 2009
Secret Bush Memos Reveal U.S. Dictatorship
Posted by USA / Carol under Balkers
[58] Comments
Nine secret legal opinions, written by former Office of Legal Counsel attorneys John C. Yoo and Robert J. Delahunty, were recently released by the Justice Department. Overall, they reveal that the Bush administration brought the United States close to executive tyranny after the September 11th, 2001 attacks.
Neil A. Lewis wrote in the New York Times, “The opinions reflected a broad interpretation of presidential authority, asserting as well that the president could unilaterally abrogate foreign treaties, ignore any guidance from Congress in dealing with detainees suspected of terrorism, and conduct a program of domestic eavesdropping without warrants.”
One of the opinions, written by John C. Yoo and dated October 23, 2001, stated that the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches and seizures was not relevant in wartime, “The Government’s compelling interest in protecting the nation from attack and in prosecuting the war effort would outweigh the relevant privacy interests, making the search and seizure reasonable.” Regarding the need for a warrant, Yoo wrote, “Warrant and probable cause requirements… are unsuited to the demands of wartime and the military necessity to prosecute a war against an enemy.”
In addition, the October 23, 2001 memo asserted that “First amendment speech and press rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage war successfully.” The memo further declared that, “The current campaign against terrorism may require even broader exercises of federal power domestically.”
According to Scott Horton, an International Human Rights Attorney, writing in Harpers Magazine, “He [Yoo] concluded that in wartime, the President was freed from the constraints of the Bill of Rights, with respect to anything he chose to label as a counter terrorism operation inside the United States.”
In a statement made on MSNBC, Michael Isikoff remarked, “We may not have realized it at the time, but in the period from late 2001 – January 19, 2009, this country was a dictatorship.”
The Senate Judiciary Committee is considering a commission of inquiry to investigate the Bush administration’s controversial counter terrorism tactics. The Chairman, Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vermont) proposed a “truth commission” to probe the use of torture, domestic surveillance, and other contentious policies enacted during Bush’s Presidency.
Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin (Democrat, Illinois) and Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (Democrat, Rhode Island) have also called for the release of a report prepared by the Justice Department, based on a 4½ year-long inquiry into whether three former OLC lawyers – including Yoo and former OLC chief Jay S. Bybee – violated professional standards in preparing these opinions.
More documents are expected to be released.
58 Responses to “ Secret Bush Memos Reveal U.S. Dictatorship ”
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Welcome aboard Carol! As B/P readers already know, I too was very disturbed by what I believe were multiple abuses of power by the Bush administration. And certainly it’s ramifications, were international.
We’ve seen Nixon and other presidents try unconstitutional garbage before, but we’ve also seen Congress execute it’s duties of oversight and get it stopped. The fact that during the Bush Regime they simply rubberstamped it – even most Dems – was equally troubling IMO. I believe history will condemn this chapter of America, similar to the way it has with the Japanese-American internment camps during WWII.
But I worry that they’ve paved some road, for the next crew of zealots to take power and neuter Congress and U.S. Courts with the next sky-is-falling national emergency event. Hopefully what will emerge from the Bush era is such a withering documentation of executive-branch abuses, that we learn for next time what is really going on as it happens. See ACLU.org, for a big fat mountain of evidence from the last 8 years.
It will be interesting to see how Obama uses these executive privileges/power grabs created by the Bush Regime. For some reason, I don’t think he will cut back on those abuses of power, but I hope I’m wrong!
I’d like to know what planet Isikoff was living on? Anyone with an IQ over 80 knew we were living in a dictatorship. I too am still very concerned about this happening again. The congress has done NOTHING to take steps or pass legislation to give the American people assurance that another insane dictator won’t reappear.
Truly, the whole American political system is so corrupt, I will simple be amazed if we survive much longer as a true republic.
We live in a ’slavery system’, because we have chosen to let power and money and materialism define us.largely. We live in a ‘open and free’ society when we choose to work towards a better future by believing in a better world,,, we helped create ‘terrorism’ but then we really exploited the fear mongering and went to war thus perpetuating the cycle of fear,,,now we as a country are both bankrupt and morally downtrodden, I think we can rise again to fix the economy and right our wrongs if we choose a Peaceful Energy Future, and commit ourselves to this end ,but we really need leadership and Im not hearing it clearly yet. Hope for the best.
Linda, I agree, it WAS clear we were living in a dictatorship….to anyone willing to see it. I’m concerned about the possibility of similar — or worse — abuses occurring in the future. It’s important for the Bush administration to be investigated and prosecuted — they can’t be allowed to escape responsibility for what they did.
If we hold them accountable, we’ll regain some respect in the world and will stand a much better chance of preventing these kinds of abuses in the future.
Sam from Maine, I agree, we DID help create terrorism and then Bush used fear to manipulate, intimidate and justify his illegal war. We have a long way to go to ‘fix’ what’s been done, if that’s possible. I’m a positive person…but realistic…so much damage has been done. Despite this, the far right continues to try to wage war and distort the truth….
Most people work long, hard, hours and then come home to care for children, parents and meet other responsibilities. Somehow we need to focus our energy and make our voices heard, relentlessly, until things change.
Welcome back Sam, and aboard to Prema and Linda OKC! (Oklahoma City,
I presume…)
It’s very important I’d say to enforce the law, and bring cases where
good ones can be made – otherwise you tell the next power-mad administration to go right ahead. The window for Constitutional
remedy – impeachment – already passed of course.
But the lense of history is it’s own powerful judge, and will not treat
kindly IMO either the Bush Regime operators nor the Congress that
failed it’s duty to check and remedy their abuses. I opposed Obama
for Hillary in the primaries, but he was right in his inaugural to label
as a false choice, our safety vs. our values. We’re the land of the
free dammit! Or, we were… ;^)
I likewise believe the burdens of daily existence of citizens, helps
facilitate incompetence and corruption from our leaders. We’d
shut it down much faster with a more involved electorate. On the
other side of that coin though, look at how the WWW has enabled
us. Look at how we’ve turned media gatekeepers, on their heads
now in just over a decade since the internet’s emergence / mid ’90’s
As Roger Waters once said, “We don’t need no, thought control”… ;^)
Oh hogwarsh! Compared to some other presidents Bush a freaking moderate.
Look what Lincoln did to this country, waged a war against states who had seceded legally and peacefully, simply because HE did not want the Union to cease, and then waived habaes corpus on AMERICANS, not foreign enemy combatant terrorists. You might want to visit civil war cemetaries all over the US and find out how this man decimated the US!
Look what FDR did, for pete’s sakes…rounded up thousands of Japanese citizens and put them in freaking concentration camps…then went about extending the Great Depression for 11 years!
George Bush kept this country propped up for six years, when it didn’t have ONE DIME to it’s name…he fought two war fronts against terrorists who murdered 3,000 Americans, and removed an insane dictator and gave a country an opportunity for democracy and self rule. Then the democrats got control of Congress in 2007 and the country went to hell in a handbasket in less than two years! And you people are sympathetic to a bunch of terrorists in Gitmo who wish you DEAD! Give me a freaking break!
The memo’s Comrade Obama opened the door a crack and let out will be the last time you see that door open. And he did it so he can further teach Americans to hate republicans…when in fact those were simply legal opinions, most of which were tabled and never implemented. And the democratic pig trough of lies and propaganda continues.
I’ve been a democrat my whole adult life…and can certainly recognize another democrat. These people leading congress and your new president ARE NOT democrats…they’re The New Party (communists) who will stop at nothing to turn this country into a socialist state.
Seig Heil, folks!
Look Pal , We are all in this boat together, and its sinking faster then the bailout that is continuing to throw money at the same problems that got us into the boat in the first place. This game is up on fear mongering and race bating, and general ‘us versus them attitudes’,we need cooperation to lift our selves out of mental slavery ,this world doesnt care about puny human petty arguments anymore!!! Thats what I think ,,First amendment rights ,,I love the US and i pray we can save our country from the ‘cynicsm’ and ‘negativity’ we have generated ,,,its time to change ! USreal
Thanks for Balkingback Rowdy – welcome aboard!
During the Bush years I sometimes feared that the rest of the world assumed Americans had all voted for Bush, or mostly all supported his policies. While the site’s Balks will always have international relevance of some sort to them, readers will definitely see times in the Balkbacks that illustrate the deep political divide in the U.S.
Yet Americans nearly all agree on one Constitutional cornerstone: Plurality
The guarantee of plurality in our views, cultures, religions, ways of life.
The dichotomy, diversity and freedom to express, makes us socially richer not poorer / stronger not weaker. And in this we are joined by and united with, citizens of the many nations that make up the Free World!
And even by those not free, but looking to maybe overthrow their dictator… ;^)
Wow! Thank you.
Welcome aboard chip! Your thanks belong to Carol, one of our very first Balkers – whom believes this is an important matter to examine as do I. And as she said, it’s likely there is much more to emerge.
Rowdy hit the nail on the head.
When Clinton was Prez I never felt safe in my own home until the election of W. I had just finished a 5 year stint in Germany working for our very own government.
In Germany I felt
very safe and lived the best 5 years of my life there.I got married there and my first child, who is now a Presidential Scholar at a prominent university, was born there.
After coming back to the USA I got cancer and had to retire after 23 years of government service. I have been retired over 10 years now and the one thing the free time gave me was time to surf the net and read a lot.
The more I read about our US Government and especially all the lies that we as citizens are being told the more afraid I became.
Rowdy verified EVERYTHING that I have learned in the past 10 years of being retired (and disabled). Even though I will not be around much longer I have children that I pray for daily along with prayers for my country and the people who govern it.
Forget about the money you earn, how rich you are, the job you have, the house you live in or the friends you think you have.
IF this country gets back to common sense values it WILL be our children who will end up doing it. They are the future govornors of this great land.
Do you truely love your children?
Then you would do anything for them. That’s why I am scared.
There is really very little in my power to leave a world were you do not have to be scared and scepticle of your own country’s
government…bottom to top.
I am ALREADY convinced that neither the new socialist party (aka Democrats) or the Republicans will be able to straighten out the mess that OUR generation has let America slip into…along with those Rowdy mentioned above and a few others.
I have truley attempted to see the good in America and there is GOOD in this country BUT the values that has driven America from the very begining (no…not life liberty and the pursuit of happiness)still reign Supreme…GREED.
I for one do not believe that
Americans will ever be able to overcome that first obstacle.
If I were able I would run for the hills!
Thank you for your comments. I’m very concerned, too, about the greed that drives our country and how much things have changed for the worse since I was a child. My hope is that Obama will inspire us as citizens, and as a country, to move in much more responsible, very different directions.
FDR was called a communist when he established social security (and many other programs that helped us recover from the Great Depression). Yet, social security has worked, providing a safety net to ensure that the elderly aren’t living in poverty in their later years.
I’m an optimistic realist. I research the issues to learn as much as possible, as you’ve done, so that I understand and know what’s going on. Yet, I still believe in our power to create change. If we educate ourselves about the problems we face, get involved and participate more, voice our opinions to those we elected, throw them out of office when they don’t do what we’ve asked, and work to the best of our ability to make a difference, I believe we can create the change we need.
If WE don’t do it, who will?
Welcome aboard Pozac – thank you for your national service.
The Bush years lacked mechanisms, to hold the greed in check which is a fundamental part of human nature I’d say. The Reagan / Bush era did not believe in regulation nor any capacity for government to be effective – so those in place already are gutted or decay, and new ones are not devised where needed.
You end up with laissez-faire capitalism, which inevitably eats itself alive – as it again began to in 2008. Billions are lost, tens of millions suffer.
We’ve been through it numerous times in American history, each time implementing appropriate new controls and safety nets, to allow private enterprise to live on / not to kill it.
Carol…if our Social Security System is so great, then why don’t we make politicians use it also? The system WOULD have worked great had we kept it out of the General Fund. There was enough for EVERY American to retire and live a very good life instead of barely getting enough to live on. Yes I know it was NOT designed for a retirement system but had it been left alone it would have provided more wealth at retirement for those who paid into it. The sight of that amount of money showing on the government books was just more than they could stand, yet nobody in the government even thought that the citizens might could use a little more money in the SS check.
Pozac, Social Security is a good program. Clearly, we need regulations to protect it from future administrations, so that what Bush did can never happen again.
Bush used Social Security funds to pay for the war in Iraq and tax cuts. This is one of more shameful acts committed by the Bush administration, after promising not to touch it. He looted the entire $509 billion Social Security surplus trust fund.
See Looted from the Inside Out:
Whatever Happened to the Social Security Trust Fund? By JACKIE CORR
And now he’s left town… ;^)
This is an update on the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) and their efforts to hold the Bush administration accountable:
“The ACLU is urging the establishment of a Select Committee in the House of Representatives to conduct a congressional review of executive branch detention and surveillance abuses during the Bush administration. Such a review of ongoing national security policies would be much like the select committee chaired by Senator Frank Church in the 1970s.”
“The ACLU believes that the legendary Church Committee, formed by Congress to investigate the egregious abuses of executive power of the 1970s, is a good model for a Select Committee to investigate Bush administration policies. In nine months, the Church Committee interviewed 800 individuals and conducted 250 executive and 21 public hearings. Its report had far reaching impact and resulted in the creation of the permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the passage of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, among other reforms. A new Select Committee could have similar results, ensuring that future administrations would follow the law and respect individual rights, regardless of the party in power.”
“Americans’ faith in government has been deeply shaken,” said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. “Congress’ complacent approach to national security oversight, especially during the early years of the Bush administration, has done our country irreparable harm and legitimized illegal and counter-productive intelligence programs. It’s time for Congress to step up and assert its role of oversight.”
“Additionally, the ACLU is also encouraging the Department of Justice to appoint a special prosecutor to conduct its own investigation into detention issues and, if warranted by the facts, to bring any criminal charges.”
The whole system is really screwed up, we have fallen into a complete material consumer society and it seems we have forgotten how to live as a people. WE are not all that civilized, because it seems we are still enslaved by our ‘corporate masters’. And it continues to get worse, more and more monopolies, outrageous bank bailouts, waste waste and waste. So we use 25% of the worlds oil and the resulting pollution, no wonder we need to wage wars and thus the ‘torture’ that gos with it. Is war nnot ‘civilized terror’ . We are the terrorist too, but I would have to ultimatly place the blame on our Gov. the presidents ,Repub.s and Dem.s alike. And how they pander to lobbyists who represent all the big big companies who shut down local buisnesses ,farms, and ship jobs over seas and pollute and hide the pollution and go to other countries and sell weap[ons and enslave tere populations and take the oil and minerals,, leave behind decay and disease but then we give them a scool and a hospital maybe, and loan them money but charge them interest so this is what we do. All the food we grow on factory farms and all the sugar we drink at school growing up and the bpoisen in our meats decay, sickness,eating peoples brains, and bowels! Now they cut up drugs at the pharmacy , huge profits made , and trhow you in jail for a joint, people are paying more for jails in this country then thee neducation ,,its true look it up. So we terrorize thye people into losing everthing they own, it is a war on life,,, totally disturbing news everday entertains us all the while. Because it makes us feel better somehow to know others are suffering more, and its those minorities or those “terrerists in the middle east that are gonna kill us” or the nonchristians are going to hell, that religous fanaticsm in our government, such a righteous bullshit story, .I mean killing in the name of god,,it is wrong. We will continue this crappy blame game sick story of death disease and destruction until we stop blaming ‘the others’ for our own problems and we start polluting this world with our ‘lifestyles’ and “live in Harmony with the earth and all life” Call me a liberal, call me a tree-hugger, you will ,I know, because we are so used to judging eachother and placing blame etc… Thats how the politicians do it , think about it. I f we saved all the waste anmd ineffiecencys in our energy ,transportation ,housing and helth care sectors we could all use that money to invest in a brighter future, ,nah, wont happen, too much work,, buisness as usual ,friggin tree huggers what a bunch of peace nuts, socialist ,gays etc… Thats what the rich will say and they can buy out the newspapers anyways,,,I nguess i will have to be happy knowing that Im not a rascist , closeminded , sheep following the devil into hell here on earth.
The ACLU was the only entity I saw during the Bush years, to stand up strongly against the numerous abuses of power. When I saw their fortitude and staunch defense of the U.S. Constitution, I became a card-carrying member… ;^)
Sam, hope you find reason for optimism at least at times in life. As dire as many things are in the world, I continue to believe we have more going for us than against us as a species.
I guess it’s not a secret any more is it?
please,please can there be anymore focus from you all and the media than what is really important to any person and that is just living your life to yourself, stop worrying about everyone else ignore it all/
To Earthperson. What the heck are u doing on balkingpoints if your not trying to figure out how to fix the problems we as ‘modern society’ have created? Or what about democracy! Its about the citizens involvement, we cant just wish for a better future,,we have to be informed and affect change or they will take everything.
I have read a lot about how the POTUSA is also the “commander in chief” So a question anyone? How come Mr G W Bush was not or cannot be courts marshalled for dereliction of duty and office???
Thanks for your question, baldeagle in France — you’ve made an excellent point. However they’re held accountable, I think we have a responsibility, as a country and a people, to prosecute those responsible for the abuses perpetrated under Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice.
I was one of millions who did NOT vote for Bush and detested his policies. He weakened people’s civil rights protections and our laws and violated the Constitution he swore to uphold. His administration brought us shame, resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths, displaced millions in Iraq from their homes (and even here at home, through pushing to make home ownership viable for those who couldn’t qualify). And his administration brought financial devastation to our country, and other countries around the world, through irresponsible deregulation policies that resulted in no oversight for the banking industry, many corporations and Wall Street.
Many in our country wanted to see both Bush and Cheney impeached.
Now that his “reign” is over, we have a responsibility to prosecute. The majority of Americans want those responsible held accountable and have voiced strong opinions in favor of this. We’re waiting — and hoping — to see if Obama will have the courage and strength of character to do the right thing.
Good morning Carol, USA, as you many of us want to see action taking place, however we need to find a way for Democracy to work again and have our voices heard for our new government to DO something, it seems to me that many people is just giving up, as is earthperson, due to the luck of or the lenght of time it takes the government to do something or respond to the voice of the people, IMHO
Hello Eduardo/USA, thanks for joining the discussion.
I still believe we can make a difference by writing to President Obama @ http://www.whitehouse.gov (lower right corner where it says “Contact”)
and by writing to our senators and local representatives. We can participate by commenting on news articles, and getting involved at whatever level is possible locally to address problems.
Keep up the pressure, by expressing opinions and demanding action.
Welcome aboard Eduardo!
Hmm. We’re linking up the White House now. During the Bush Regime,
I’d have feared arrest… ;^)
I found your site from a youtube post. What a wonderful site you have.
I love learning from others from many perspectives.
Our two party system has failed us and we cannot claim we are clueless. The good old boy system is arrogant(on both sides from all races, genders and faiths) protects the corrupt in government. Maybe Nixon was right stating the president is above the law. Mmmmmmaybe that is so if you don’t come in contact with the power of one who has principles.
This may be our era to do the right thing and throw them all out of office.
All kids want is a future and the adults in charge are sinking their boat! We all are one in a million with the potential to amaze our world.
Who are you kidding? No matter who had been elected, whether Bush, or Gore, or Kerry, he would have done the same thing. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a “Republican” and a “Democrat.”
What has happened to the US Constitution, and why it was not applied to the bush administration.
I believe that if the US Constitution would have been applied, bush would not have gotten away with all that he did in the good name of the American people,that gave him their trust, because Americans do not torture or support torture, Americans do not wage illegal wars, and Americans do not spy upon its own people, Americans do not keep people encarcerated for years without formal accusations, and our basic principle is that a man is innocent until proven guilty, at least this is what I was taught in my American education that I received, or is America a nation of hypocrits who have two weights and two measures.
I sure wish that Mr. Obama will evidence to the people of this planet that America is still the place where freedom, liberty, and justice for all still prevails, and America has no kings or dictators, and once this is done America will regain its lost prestiege, along with its lost friends that have been chased away by the former bush administration’s dogmatic foreign policies.
Sammy
David Lefleche, I don’t know where you’re from, but, with all due respect, I disagree that Gore, Kerry and Bush would have “done the same thing.”
Gore has been a champion for seriously addressing much-needed environmental change and has worked hard to raise awareness about the danger of continuing to bury our heads in the sand. He’s making a difference.
The Bush administration violated the same Constitution and laws they swore to uphold.
While I agree that Democrats have work to do, it’s also true that Democrats have brought Americans almost all of the progress made for worker’s rights, civil rights for blacks and women. They enacted laws to protect the environment, animals and wildlife. While we have far to go, Democrats established a baseline from which to move forward.
Bush and the far right, on the other hand, spent the past 30 years working to erode and destroy all of these protections.
The outrage people express makes a difference. We have to be vigilant and vocal and make our voices heard.
Welcome aboard, David & Sammy!
Perhaps the United States should begin matching the terrorist organizations tit for tat, cutting off their heads in telivised theatrics, slaughtering innocent citizens by the thousands and tauning them with televised statements from hidden caves. The release of classified documents by the Obama administration is an atrocity and he is the one who should be prosecuted.
Woodyd, if the US adopted terrorist tactics, we would be throwing away the principles we live by (and still sometimes fail to honor) and everything we stand for. Principles aren’t relative, something we can dismiss in order to retaliate and exact revenge.
“The false choice between our safety and our values”
Obama’s words at inauguration. And I opposed him for Hillary last year.
But this matter he has exactly right IMO.
Even if one doesn’t accept the concept that Bush administration methods only served as recruitment material for gihad terrorists – and validation for them in their homelands – I think it’s wrongfullness will become clear if it
is established that laws of the United States were in fact broken.
And when, what are apparently many more abuse-of-detainee photos, hit
the fan shortly. The ACLU has prevailed in a 4-year FOIA lawsuit to get them released.
I don’t know how awful they are. But I have a feeling they are going to
shock even Bush defenders, whom previously believed it was only a few loose cannons at Abu Ghraib involved.
I ran across this site completely by accident, and in having read the comments and gotten a personal feel for the depth, sincerity, and resolve of those here who want to see positive, meaningful, life affirming change for and on behalf of us all; I am deeply impressed and humbled. This is an association of like minded folks that I have searched for and long wished to see come together, and it’s happening here in this place it would seem.
Among other things, I firmly agree with each and everyone who has spoken so clearly concerning the gross abuses of power and authority by Bush and his cohorts including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfield, C. Rice, and others.
In my entire life, I have never seen, nor dreamed of seeing such blatant and gross abuse of power within this nation, nor have I seen that abuse flaunted with such defiant self assurance. Even now, I have no doubt in my own mind that Mr. Bush has no thought whatever that he may be held accountable for a frighteningly lengthy list of criminal misconduct, and yet as some have noted here already, it has never been more urgent that this accountability be brought to bear on each and every one involved in the multitude of crimes and abuses of power that covered eight horrible years.
We each share in the ultimate commitment to continue making our voices heard, until justice has been truly served; until we have sent a clear and present message that such abuse of power and such hellish dishonor will never again be representative of this nation and its people, and we must insure that honor, integrity, truth, and respect for every human being be fully restored and recognized as being essential to the core values of what America is all about.
Finally, may I please say that I am thankful to see the representation of others here, who are perhaps not necessarily American citizens, but who share in our common thoughts and concerns for the ultimate value and consideration for all human life, regardless of geographical borders. Truly apart from all else, it remains that we are a single human family with very much to offer and share each with the other.
And thanks to everyone for caring enough to share thoughts and opinions both pro and con, knowing that we don’t have to be “carbon copies” of each other to remain mindful of who and what we are as members of this grand global family.
Welcome aboard Bob!
Good remarks. As B/P site author I definitely do have a progressive political viewpoint – as I divulged in the very first Balkback that went up on the site.
Dissenting views are welcome of course.
We’ve certainly done a lot so far to malign the prior U.S. administration – that was inevitable – but as Balkingpoints grows we’ll be moving far beyond the ever-circular U.S.-centric debates over left/right, to a cacophony of worldwide opinion. That is the site mission.
But the world vetoed Bush and ratifies at his outset, Obama (he could
screw it up of course…). His election was a natural entry point for Balkingpoints.com on the WWW
It’s time we spoke across borders as regular people, indeed World Citizens! :^)
Interesting….. so some of you think the warrant less surveillance was justified? I’m a victim of that surveillance. My fiancee lives in Canada. I live in California. She has two children. We would talk on the phone everyday for hours at a time. I would send packages containing the kinds of things a (step) Father would get for the little girls he loves. I would send money up to pay for things such as school field trips, books for school, clothes and of course all the things that Health Canada doesn’t pay for. Like medication, casts even bandages. I learned about the Homeland Security policies when in one month, our oldest wanted to go on a school field trip to a water park, needed a new pair of glasses and then when she rode her bike down a steep hill, lost control and took out a stop sign with her body. We had to pay for the ambulance, casts, crutches and pain meds. I had all my bank accounts canceled because I transferred money three times in one month to Canada. Gee, I thought I was helping my daughter. I didn’t know I was funding terrorists. I must really be an evil person to send money to buy my 6 and 11 year old girls bicycles for Christmas. I sent our youngest a digital camera. I guess I got lucky in not getting thrown in jail because I told her that the next time they went to Toronto, to take a picture of the Marines at the Embassy. (I’m a former Marine) Both girls have t-shirts that say “My Dad is a US Marine” While I’m flattered that the girls are proud of that fact, I personally am quite embarrassed to admit I was a Marine and willing to give my all for this country. I’m disabled now and have seen first hand how the government keeps it’s promises to Veterans
My first visit to balkingpoints and, while it looked like a fine idea, I wondered what was going to keep the discussion elevated and exclude the ad hominem arguments and other childishnesses that have made a mud wallow of the interWebs.
I see that the answer is “nothing.” Best of luck to those of you who want to exchange ideas, but I think open sites like this defeat that purpose. You might as well hold a symposium in a bus station.
Best argument against this hypothesis was Bush himself saying that what he was doing would be a lot easier if he was a dictator.
“Truly, the whole American political system is so corrupt, I will simple be amazed if we survive much longer as a true republic.”
Try living in Russia…now THAT is corrupt, or Haiti…hmmnn…some perspective.
Welcome Bruce & Kergyma.
Had Clinton or Obama used staff attorneys to write legal opinions, that rendered executive carte blanch and effectively canceled the separation of powers & the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, Republicans wouldn’t sit idle for it.
Beyond any party, this was criminal abuse of power plain and simple. Hold on for the ride, much more to emerge on the high corruption that was the Bush Regime.
Shit-can all the bureaucratically and administratively top heavy programs and simultaneously institute a general douching of the medical, legal and educational professions to make the public good tantamount to corporate and institutional success. Implement a new way to measure GDP that would include and reward tangible corporate goodwill and eco-sensible behaviors; and provide a national guaranteed minimum income, free education and health care for all citizens. Much of America’s human potential is being wasted under the current set-up.
I have a Sympathy for Americans who were tortured by Bush Administrations for levying huge taxes, spending people’s money against people’s wish/will, abusing all Americans throughout the globe for illegitimacy war in Iraq etc.,and ofcourse. so-called Cold-War against its own citizens(remember the Sr.G.W.Bush was overthrown from his ’seat’)thereis much more to reveal.By the way !!FIGHT-FOR-RIGHT!! May ‘ALLAH’ bless you all and give the strength and ability to rise against corrupt government. Ameen! Sumameen!! GOD-HAFEEZ to you all and me too!!!.
As Spock always said, fascinating…
Welcome aboard Arif, perhaps just our 2nd Balkback from India. Fluent in English and already hitting B/P a few times per month, I believe Indians will weigh in strongly on Balkingpoints as it unfolds over the next few years.
It’s amazing how impressions, carry across continents. I would say your general thrust is accurate Arif, but with adjustments to specifics;
– Americans are actually taxed less than most of the first world. And we suffer from a far worse social safety-net because of that. We largely
fend for ourselves on health care, education, job retraining, and new employment when economic tides cancel the job we’re in. Some would argue the lower tax rates, free up capital which is put to use growing the economy. In some cases that can be true. Other times it is clear that too many people are suffering, as is the case now. That fact is a big reason for the election of Barack Obama, deposing the laissez-faire Republican party led by the incompetent George Bush Jr.
– Americans can and do vote out bad leaders, so it’s not completely true that tax revenues are spent against our will. We rely on elected and appointed officials, to be responsible with it and tell the truth about it. When abuse and scandals arise, like invading Iraq on a false premise of
a WMD threat, we turn against those leaders.
It gets spent sometimes on unjust or wasteful things, but then we get on to it and force change. That’s an enduring value of being democratic – India probably has similar experiences as does every other democracy. Power corrupts, then ordinary people put a stop to it…
– Bush Jr. waged a surveillance war against Americans, but the Cold War
is known of course as the period after WWII where the U.S. opposed the dictatorial and expansionist Soviet Union, at just about every turn. And
our leaders made colossal mistakes in that effort; installing the Shah of
Iran as a hedge against Soviet takeover of oil fields critical to the world economy, and going to war in Vietnam to stop the so called “domino effect” of communism in Asia (which never happened), as two examples.
However ask the millions persecuted, jailed & murdered by Joseph Stalin, and ask nations like Germany and the Czech Republic how it was to be overrun by his army, and you also see some legitimacy in that “cold” war against the USSR. Which was waged by NATO nations of course, not the U.S. alone.
The West prevailed, mostly because of the implosion of Soviet mechanisms of repression that tried & failed to hold their populations down from innovation and expression, and influences of Western society. Americans eventually rose up and stopped the Vietnam War, Russians eventually rose up and stopped Stalinism – with an assist by the progressive Mikhail Gorbachev. (perhaps next the world will see such a progressive figure,
in Beijing)
I would say that nothing about the 20th Century, was easy on the geo-political level. It was one earthquake after another. Now the world needs to use what we’ve come to technologically and from ideological trial and error, and move into a new century of peaceful co-existence / underpinned by a bustling global economy built on free & fair trade amongst nations. Nobody can tell this American, it can’t be done… :^)
I’m not happy either about the revelation that our former vice president, Dick (Voldemort) Cheney wanted to use U. S. troops in the city of Buffalo. What the heck was he thinking? This was the time of the anthrax mailings as well as the Sept. 11 attacks. We literally would have had panic in the streets if the troops had been unleashed. I feel this proves that Bush and Cheney were unfit for duty when they considered this one!
They should have both been impeached as soon as their violation of the FISA law surfaced – spying on phone calls & emails of Americans en masse with search-term technology, with absolutely no probable cause nor independent judiciary OK – as is required by the 4th Amendment.
But we had a Congress full of goose-stepping rubberstampers – Republicans – and a minority of Democrats too afraid of the GOP attack machine to stand up for Constitutional principles.
Except Senator Feingold. He confronted the Bush Regime head on for it,
but he was alone. Neither Hillary nor Obama were vocal in opposition either. They were on record opposing it, but not on TV opposing it.
This is also how Republicans passed the Patriot Act just after 9/11/01, which unconstitutionally allotted preemptive search powers to the FBI. With a compliant and silent Media Inc. in their pocket, they’d still be in power except that their bogus “Trickle-Down” economic ideology, imploded into deep recession and mass hardship for regular Americans. (Which continues, and will for years to come).
So I don’t doubt that such a path would inevitably lead to National Guard occupation of some unruly city, where civil rights marches were flaring up demanding the return of America from such a corrupt administration. Why they’d want to do it to pursue a handful of gihad lunatics in Buffalo, I have no idea.
Except maybe as a dress rehearsal, and general show of Regime power. Of course when the National Guard was needed for a massive flood-relief effort in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, they weren’t too interested in that…
Marika: It’s also shocking, not surprising, that Cheney would have authorized the formation and activities of an “assassination squad”. I hope we hear much more about this in the near future, possibly from Seymour Hersh in the book he’s currently writing.
It’s both interesting and a sad commentary, how the Bush Regime was able to sell their law violations like spying on Americans and “enhanced interrogation”, to so many Americans.
About half would either openly cheer these inroads to police state, or not have much objection to them (thinking it’s all for the good of the nation…)
I’m sure Cheney’s plans for the hit squad, would have been received much the same had they come to light as the other abuses did, while they were in office. Assumption being, it’s only about protecting the nation from gihadists.
But we have laws and federal checks & balances in place, to assure that no branch of government becomes all-powerful, nor in any kind of position where we just have to trust it and take their word for their propriety.
I’m quite sure that what Cheney had in mind, would not have been legal.
He never bothered himself with such inconveniences.
I cannot believe I am reading all this BS about holding the Bush administration accountable but I read not one comment clamouring to hold the Obama administration and the Democrats accountable. They have a clear majority in all branches of the government and they have done absolutely nothing but perpetuate all the illegal policies that the Bush administration and the Republicans put in place!
As an ex-Democrat and Vietnam vet I am fed up with all the propaganda being fed to us from both parties and the ruling elite. There is no difference in either party. They continue to implement policies that have slowly eroded our civil liberties. I am convinced now more than ever that the leadership of both parties are taking us to a total police state. Anyone who cannot see this has their head in the proverbial sand!
Welcome aboard Peter. Many Progressives and Libertarians are disappointed there has not been more of the Bush concentration-of-power repealed, though some of it was when Obama took office. He made a public denouncement of the Bush torture and rendition policies, and is moving to close Guantanamo. And he released the above memos, that Bush was hiding from Americans and the world.
On the wiretapping, Bush made a deal with Congress in 2008. They passed a law that required his illegal program to be brought under FISA – no searches without probable cause (which means no mass searches as the Bush Regime was doing), and no searches without judiciary OK. How much of that change is real, is yet to be determined.
The GOP-smeared ACLU, is your best barometer and advocate. They have applauded some Obama decisions regarding the repeal of Bush policies, and are suing to change others.
Right now they want people to email Eric Holder, whom is considering a special prosecutor for the Bush prisoner abuse programs – which violated both U.S. and international law;
ACLU.org
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“They should have both been impeached as soon as their violation of the FISA law surfaced – spying on phone calls & emails of Americans en masse with search-term technology, with absolutely no probable cause nor independent judiciary OK – as is required by the 4th Amendment.”
Now this is bad, but not as bad as Obama trying to own your whole computer when you attempt to go to the governmet CARS site.
Thanks for posting, “anonymous”. I hope others will weigh in on this.
However, I urge considerable caution in taking seriously any information coming from Glenn Beck at Fox News…not exactly the most reliable source for factual information!
Welcome anonymous. Consider though that spyware, malware and cookies can be deleted by the device’s owner. But I was never aware of any way to evict Cheney’s surveillance squads… ;^)
(except for voting the GOP out of power, of course… ;^)
What a disapointment that Obama has not only kept the same policies but has expanded on them, I am afraid for our republic.
I recently become aware that the two party system is a two headed snake..the elite, bankers and corporations, are marching us right into a New World Order.
I am concerned that Marshal Law and a police state lie in our near future.
We may have armed revolt due to our 2nd amendment but the police state along with the military will wipe out any revolt..a revolution needs leaders..fractional revolt will most likely be suicide I’m afraid.
If and when the time comes and the gestapo comes to my door I hope to have the courage to stay free.
Thanks for your remarks blossom – welcome aboard!
To Saminmaine and Carol, kudo’s on stating things that need to be said in an intelligent manner (how refreshing), was beginning to think the internet was one large teen hangout !
As far as this topic goes, I for one feel that it’s this countries sacred obligation to hold ALL pols who violate, or attempt to subvert or constitution accoutable ! My faith in either current party to uphold or attain this is shaky at best.