Fri 21 Aug 2009
Health Care. Who is it for?
Posted by Gat under Balkers
[46] Comments
These past days, weeks have gone with an intensified debate on health care reform in which president Obama is trying to pass in the US. Actually, looking in from outside the states i do not see any debate at all taking place. All i see is blood on the street….by this, I mean the mean spirited stance the opposition has taken on this very important issue.
We have all watched the town halls meetings being distrupted by so called protesters not giving any view or opinion of theirs but, portraying the president of the country as a socialist, nazi, Hitler and all other rubbish… It is indeed shameful. And this attitude, sentiments i dare say, has been whipped up by some of the republican leaders such as Senator Grassley, Sarah Palin with her “death panels” talk and conservative presenters on radio and television like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh et al.
One thing is clear about this, the arguement really seems not to be about health care for these people, rather, they want to see Obama fail in his duties as the commander in chief. Some republican politicians, conservative writers have actually expressed such sentiments. And if that’s the case the question arises…who is the health care reform for?
Listening to the then senator..Obama that is, in his campaign for the White house, he stressed all along the need to reform the health care system and to help the millions of uninsured Americans to become insured, where it will be free for the individual to choose whatever option (public or private) they prefer…only now, the difference is that getting more people into the system will involve government participation and rightly so considering the less fortunate ones in the society. And yes health care for all and not for the rich few. America should emulate other western countries such as France, Germany, Great Britain, Scandinavia etc in providing affordable health care for its people. Health care provision should in a better world be decided by the doctor and patient and not by insurance men….and there is no death panel anywhere in the west where “free health care” is enjoyed by it’s citizens.
In the UK where i live and having spent several years in Sweden, we look in astonishment that a country like the US cannot guarantee health care services for its people. And if that is socialism, then i’ll take that. To be fair though, if the opposition were to be wise in debating this, a good angle is asking how it will be funded. But at the end of the day, a healthy nation will be beneficial to the country on the long run. Conclusively, health care is for people and not the politicians who enjoy first rate health care together with there insurance cronies.
Welcome aboard Gat, excellent Balk.
When yours came in I did a little repackaging of the topic on the main Balkers page. We had up a very good perspective from Pat Morin in Canada, and I’d later asked one of our earliest members – Carol, USA – to include her remarks there as opposed to a separate Balk. But yours convinced me that B/P needed a sectioned area for Health Reform… ;^)
And along with Carol’s Balk (which gives insight into why the U.S. is so backwards in this area), I’m very pleased to have the U.K. and Canadian perspectives. The industrialized world has much to inform the U.S., on how we can get this done. We’ve had Balkbacks on it from Sicily and Finland as well.
I will have more in reply specifically to your remarks above, later this evening (Fri 21 Aug). Suffice to say the matter has reached a level of true absurdity at this point, in the eyes of American Progressives.
I shudder to think how it must be playing over there… ;^)
It’s a little bit comical that these same clips of screaming, bickering, disinformed shills of the American Far Right, are playing on your TV’s there in the UK as they are here in the U.S. They must look completely deranged to residents of a nation which has long-ago implemented health care for all…
For anyone just entering the theater, Congress takes a yearly August break and goes home from Washington to hear from their home districts. This year because of the major legislation in the works to finally bring America on to par with the rest of the First World, and extend health insurance to all it’s citizens, many Congresspersons decided to hold “Town Hall” meetings on it.
So the Far-Right media outlets – flagshipped by Ruppert Murdoch’s Fox News Channel and the proven-wrong radio persona Rush Limbaugh – tell their Bush-supporting audience to show up and disrupt the Town Halls.
That is all that has happened. After about 2 weeks of all major U.S. media showing the ruckus they made over and over, polls this week still show a majority supporting reform that covers all Americans.
The personal assaults on Obama are indeed shameful in one light, but
also commonplace in U.S. politics and most Americans don’t blink at that. Obama voters regard these disruptors as brainwashed pawns of that Far-Right media, whom have been lied to with scare-tactics like “death panels” and “government takeover of health care”. Far-Right media serves as the beholdened mouthpiece of the GOP (Republican party), which is in turn beholden to the wealthiest interests, and does everything in it’s power to preserve a grossly-unequal status quo in America.
So in serving those aims, Obama failing amounts to victory. Health reform for no one thank you – we’ve got ours… ;^)
As a Bill and Hillary Clinton campaign worker going back to 1992, I will say this Obama effort to quash the wealthy insurance interests and join the civilized world on such a basic and dire matter as health care, is somewhat improved over the one from the Clintons in 1994.
I wanted the reform then & was upset that Bill did not go to the mat for
it, after Hillary had devised a very good Single-Payer system similar to Canada’s. Bill just delegated the proposal to Congress, and a handful of industry-bought Senators – both Republican and Democrat – killed it by the death of a thousand revisions. No proposal made it through both houses of Congress.
Obama has been more in campaign-mode with it, holding some Town Halls of his own, which is what I called for Bill to do in 1994. Obama has brought doctor, nurse and pharmaceutical interests on board – whom in 1994 were not convinced of how badly broken the privatized insurance system was (it was), but since have seen enough from the utterly corrupt, profiteering insurers and have made the split from them. And thanks to communications technology shrinking the world, we’re now actually hearing about the successful systems of Europe and Canada, whereas in 1994 U.S. media didn’t bother with reporting on that…
Because the money & Washington lobbies of certain industries like insurance are so powerful in America (they fund most Congressional election campaigns), this reform will still not happen easily. It is indeed a fight, it’s now ongoing, and only Barack Obama can provide the generalship needed to finally get this done for America.
Roy G — after reading your comments, I can only shake my head in frustration and disgust at the typical, repetitive, liberal mantra that you are spewing, one that is so routinely and excessively made by Obamas “followers”, which includes much of our mainstream media. Along with the media, many democrat members of congress, and many other mouthpieces for the Obama administration, you have willingly labeled and insinuated that those that have participated in the town hall meetings, are in effect, clueless, functioning on a minimal level, controlled by certain talk radio hosts, as if they had no brain of their own. How typical. As per the norm, when rising opposition threatens any program, legislation, philosophy or idea that is being thrust upon us by the liberal democrats, that rising tide is dismissed as “crazy”, “uninformed”, “militant”, etc, etc, etc. The disparaging terms used seem endless. Let me clue you in. I am none of those, and I oppose our current president in almost everything he has done, especially in his attempts to ram major societal change down our throats in so little time, that obviously being health care reform. But here’s where those of your kind seem to lose sight — we, and by that I mean conservatives, traditionalists, republicans..whatever you want to call us, are NOT against health care reform. You’d have to be quite the dolt to not realize the system is broken and needs major overhaul. And NOBODY I know wishes for health care to be available only to those that can afford it. But unlike many others, which appears to include yourself, we also realize that major change of this sort MUST be done right, with the knowledge of just exactly how it will be funded and accomplished, with steadfast purpose, examination, effectiveness and studied predictions of any ramifications, negative or positive, that might result from the implementation of such a huge change to a core, fundamental system in which we operate. Something of the magnitude of health care reform MUST NOT be done willy nilly, and most certainly not in a hurried rush, as it has been done thus far. I am all for change, but it needs to be done right. We can’t afford to get this one wrong, and then just try to change it again down the road, as that will just create such a morphed up mess that reform from that point will seem impossible. I, and some of my family went to one of the town hall meetings. We were neither there to raise a “ruckus” due to any encouragement by Rush or anyone else, or to “defeat” Obamas efforts, which while noble, seem to have more of a political conquest as the true goal. We were there of our own accord, concerned about the legislation that is almost unreadable in its complexity (and yes, I have gone through it extensively). We are concerned as to how it will be paid for (which still has yet to be explained), we are concerned as to the effect it will have on the quality and availability of our health care (some members of my family are on medicare), and most importantly we are concerned that medical decisions may be put in the hands of impersonal, red-tape laden bureaucrats. I don’t think even liberals want that to happen. The bottom line is this: there are many thousands of us that have protested, and are concerned with the speed at which this change is being rammed down our throat. Nothing of this magnitude can truly be changed in a wise manner, and at the same time be done as quickly as it is being attempted. Slow down. That’s the message. Take your time, do it right, figure it all out. First. Then act.
Welcome triumphant warrior. I hope you went to ask or hear legitimate, rational questions at that town hall.
A planted contingent of thugs programmed by right-wing media, did no
such thing. They came to disrupt the meetings by screaming propagandized falsehoods like “death panels”. Their programmers are afraid of letting the message of long-overdue healthcare progress, ever be aired. They know it will stick as Social Security and Medicare did – other junctures of critical social reform, opposed tooth & nail by the GOP of their times.
We’ve seen it all before from the GOP and Wingnut Media. Their goal is obstruction, and yes that should be obvious by this ridiculous pack of lies and their Swift Boating history as a party. (Click on the MediaMatters.org link in the blogroll at right, for fact-checking proof of their daily, deliberate misinformation. They are corrupt.)
With Sarah Palin, Chuck Grassley and others now busted on the death-panel lie, the radical right has gone on to other smears to try to frighten the public from making this badly needed reform that will enfranchise tens of millions for proper medical care; “socialism” “illegal aliens are covered” “coverage will be denied to Republicans” “govt will have access to your bank account” “seniors will get their Medicare benefits cut” (uhm… progressive Democrats, invented Medicare… ;^)
After decades of health insurance tyranny, we hardly need more time to study what to do. The entire industrialized world has solved the problem, and is laughing at our ignorance.
And while the GOP-compliant U.S. media amplifies Bush apologists screaming propaganda like “socialism” and “death panels”, the last honest journalist in America continues to tell the truth on our situation;
Moyers Journal / Comparing Medical Costs and Results
August 28, 2009
The documentary MONEY-DRIVEN MEDICINE details the American “medical-industrial complex” that makes U.S. healthcare the most expensive in the industrialized world. As THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS noted in an August 23, 2009 round-up of non-partisan studies headlined Expensive Without the Results: “The U.S. health care delivery system is by far the costliest on the planet, but comparison studies consistently show Americans get second-rate results by nearly every benchmark.”
Health Care Benchmarks
The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development’s “Health
at a Glance 2007” round-up details some of these statistics in easy-to-read graphs:
Researchers Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine found that the U.S. is falling even further behind in preventable deaths. The researchers tracked deaths they deemed preventable by access to timely and effective health care in 1997 and 1998 and 2000 and 2003. The U.S. dropped to last among the 19 industrialized nations studied. The research estimates that if the U.S. health care system performed as well as those of those top three countries (France, Japan and Australia), there would be 101,000 fewer deaths in the United States per year.
A report by the Commonwealth Fund also ranks the U.S. highest in total cost of care and last among industrialized countries “in preventing deaths through use of timely and effective medical care.” In a recent FRONTLINE report comparing the health care systems of five other capitalist democracies, “Sick Around the World,” WASHINGTON POST reporter T.R. Reid notes that, “The World Health Organization says the U.S. health care system rates 37th in the world in terms of quality and fairness. All the other rich countries do better than we do, and yet they spend a heck of a lot less.”
>>Read T.R. Reid’s “5 Myths About Health Care Around the World,” THE WASHINGTON POST, August 23, 2009.
>>Watch “Sick Around the World” to see how five other countries provide health care.
© Public Affairs Television 2008
How can you fight the powerful insurance companies, that make billions in peddling their health insurance.
These powerful insurance companies have powerful lobby groups, in most cases they even control politicians, and they can finance a public campaign to obscure people’s thinking.
Already, people think that, comunism, and socialism are trying to invade America’s freedom, by adopting a free health system for all.
But, principally I believe that few Americans are able to think for themselves, they just follow the propaganda that is being fed to them, by those that control the mass-media, and those that pay the mass-media to promote their interests, in this case, it is the big health insurance groups, that will see their profits go down, if a national free health plan will be adopted.
Sammy
Welcome back Sammy. Obama ran on a pro-people campaign of course, promising to stand up to the big corporate interests. It’s fair I’d say to credit him with introducing a reform as major as health care right away in his first year, but one reason I supported his primaries opponent Hillary Clinton in 2008, is that I knew she would get on the mat and fight for this and other parts of a Progressive agenda, and Obama did not have enough of a track record as a Senator to know that for sure. He is a consensus builder, whereas Hillary will battle whoever she needs to in order to prevail with her issues.
Which is all academic now, Obama won those primaries and then won the general election over Bush apologist John McCain. But now we really see a moment for him to stand up, after a month of scare tactics about his health proposal, emanating from those same corporate powers.
He will give a speech on national TV on Wednesday to regain the upper hand on the debate. As was said about Mikhail Gorbachev after the USSR coup of 1991, “He should not have gone on holiday…” ;^)
First let me say that I think that I am gonna Love this site. Then to warrior. IF the Repubs (of which I am one) actually wanted to fix Health care. Why didn’t they start on it these past few years? While I did not vote for Obama, if he runs again I probably will, because I am ashamed of how my own party has been acting. Yeayah I know that Dems have always done it, but I wasn’t a Dem. You are Right that we need to make this work and getting it passed is a Good Start. As another poster said. We have a much better chance of dying from a stroke or a Heart Attack, then we do of getting shot or bombed by a terrorist. Yet our government has thrown all types of money at that. And another thing that really stands out. Most of the protesters are already getting Government Sponsored Health care. Many are seniors or retired from the Military screaming how bad a government Health care would be. yet they say that they are very happy with theirs (I asked). All through our history the government has had to step in when companies were screwing over the public (rail roads, phone companies etc.) this is just another one of those times. It is time that the Government actually done something for the ones that actually put the money In.
Roy are you sure about Hillary? She stopped before, never to bring it up and I can’t remember her talking about it when she was trying for the nomination this time.But I didn’t watch that much.
To Sammy, A good number of Americans do think for themselves, it seems to me that over here there isn’t any emphasis by our “media” to give intelligent commentators an outlet. The large media organizations have adopted “talk show” formats to bolster ratings in the false belief that this passes for journalism.
That said, I agree that what we’re seeing in the “debate” is corporate money defending itself with smear tactics as the facts won’t provide them with a leg to stand on. What worries me though is that so many Americans are buying into this. What gives me hope is posts such as Penny above, it proves what Obama has said that this is a moral issue, not political. The Republicans have taken our political system to new lows. They seem content on volume, not substance. The Democrats have no right to throw stones as well, if they are so moral where was they’re backbone when Bush rammed a war down our throats !
I believe we need political reform as well, similarly, we’ll have an impossible uphill battle trying to get pols to reform themselves, but if we can reform the heath care behemoth there may be hope yet. I’ve long had some ideas,such as term and campaign financing reform, just no place to air them, local taverns not withstanding ! Was considering a new Balk on this, love to here some comments, write back !
Thoreau Fan says:
13 September, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Yes, I must agree with you that there are a lot of Americans that do think for themselves, but they have a hard time to go against the band wagen that is generally controlled by special interests groups, as it has been shown in the two wars that were imposed upon the American people to promote the financial benefits of many corporations that have participated in getting government contracts, with a lot of speculation upon them.
Of corse the mass-media is a powerful force that can even determine the selection of many leaders, and those that control the mass-media also control the country, through their predictions, opinion polls, as well as their continious propaganda.
At times, their predictions already choose a candidate before the elections are held. and by doing this, people’s freedoms are at stake, because generally no one wants to vote for a loser, and the media influence gives advantage to the candidate that is favored, So really the selections are made by the mass-media, because those who think for themselves are very few, as it has been indicated in many past election results.
As far as the free health care reform, I believe that those in the healthcare business are spending billions, and billions of dollars to stop this health care bill, using all the arms in their possession to stop it.
As I have stated before, this free health care for all, has nothing to do, to America becoming a socialist, or comunist state, people can forget this missconcept that is being promoted by those that do not want it. Free healthcare is not a political issue, but it is a humane issue that will benefit all Americans, rich and poor, and then it is not free in the full sense of the word, because it is financed through people’s tax dollars, it will create many jobs, it will stimulate the American economy, because people will have more money to spend by saving upon their health care, and certainly people will feel more secure that they will not have to worry if they get sick.
Infact I believe that this free health care should be runned by the World Health Organization to cover each individual on this planet of ours, because it is a shame that we in the 21st Century have people dying for lack of free health care, or medical assistance every minute and every second.
Really, nations, and governments should be constructive, and not destructive towards humanity, for the selfishness of the very few special interests groups that control most of the world’s wealth, as well as many governments that protect their interests.
Sammy from Sicily
The scary part that as you state, is that he who controls the media, controls the majority of the voters perceptions. Those who seek substance are silenced and marginalized all too easily.This is another under reported Busch administration policy, as you’ll recall another industry he helped deregulate was the FCC, particularly they’re stance on allowing major corporations too swallow whole markets in various parts of the country, effectively silencing the smaller and underfunded independent news organizations that did exist. It seems the only outlet we have left is the internet.
This is another area I’d love to see revisited and restrictions put in place on corporations such as Rupert Murdoch’ s monopoly. While it is arguable that it’s not a monopoly per se, we definitely need more options on who reports and controls the media. Perhaps then the once great journalistic traditions started under a free speech society can get back to their jobs, unlike the FOX network where looks and volume are the only criteria required for your own show, facts be damned.
It amazes and deeply worries me how easily this obviously biased network continuously “invents” their own version of the news. The worrisome part is how many buy into it, lets face it, the majority of the misinformation being spread in the health care debate originates here.
As far as WHO administering a world health plan, sounds good, but way to Utopian to be realistic at this point. We can’t even agree on insuring our own people. Perhaps small steps are required to effect any substantial change. Getting honest news out in a clear manner should go a long way to help elucidate the masses in a constructive way.
Hello to NPR’er Thoreau Fan, welcome aboard! I would say that the joke on corporate consolidation and corrupting of media outlets, into something that would effectively do their bidding (instead of serve the public interests i.e.; Pentagon Papers & Watergate) – is that as soon as they had major control of it, here came the Internet.
And with it, the Pandora’s Box of writers and critical thinkers who saw
what they were up to. While they still have a disturbing amount of sway over public opinion (see “How you get workers to picket against guaranteed health insurance”… ;^), I also think they face strong opposition and counter-weight now to their closed loop of misinformation. The Progressive WWW grows, while they preach to the same fixed or shrinking choirs.
I think that’s why they are screaming louder and louder now. It’s hard to have much credibility when all you do is spread obvious falsehoods like “death panels” “Obama isn’t a U.S. citizen”, or say you oppose health reform because it will harm the Medicare system that you have opposed since it began… ;^)
Thoreau Fan, Virginia,USA says:
13 September, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Yes, at the present internet is the only freedom that some people have, and I tell you that if it was not for internet, I would not be able to post my free and impartial opinions on many topics, as I live in a small town, and I am culturally isolated because I do not agree with the cultural differences that the town offers.
So through my young son, who is in the computer field, and in our area there are no jobs, he is forced to work long hours in a magazine for a non decent pay, and he is very lucky to have this present job, where if he leaves it there are 10 who are ready to move in and take his place. This will give you a taste of how workers are being treated, the labor unions, are dorment,and non existent, labor inspectors, and government agencies that control worker’s conditions are a big joke.
So my son has created a web-site where I have my own blog, and I am able to express my free and impartial opinions on many topics, I communicate with many people across the globe, mainly with some Chinese, who are very interested to communicate, but it seems that their communications in many topics is limited, but it is very important that they are able to communicate, even if their communication is limited to just to say “Hello”
Well I do hope that I will live long enough to see many changes that will benefit humanity, and there will be a smaller gap between the “Have” and the “Have Not” because during the bush regeme the “Have Not” have increased many folds, while the very few elete have increased their wealth at their expense, globally speaking.
Sammy from Sicily
So all of my information is through the many newspapers that I read on the net, Spain News net, China daily, many Italian newspapers, AsiaOne, etc. etc. But I do not read Fox News, because I do not find it to be a newspaper worthy to be read.
Sammy those economic conditions sound like neglect from a conservative, pro-business government – true?
That’s what we’re dealing with in America, decades of neglect of the needs of people, and lack of investment in their welfare as a means to lift living standards, and drive a consumption-based economy. It’s hard to sell goods when nobody can buy them…
Sicily is an autonomous part of the Republic of Italy, for readers not clear on that. But while I’m very strongly in favor of proper regulation on the capitalist engine to guard citizens from it’s ravages, I believe equally that it can be harnessed to great effect in the framework of the emerging global economy.
I see the increasing interdependence of our economies as ultimately good for individuals – both for the growth and prosperities that more trade can bring, and because that interdependence puts us on a common footing as workers. We all need the same safeguards when the downturns hit, and as governments grow more coordinated in economic policy, so too will individuals become more powerful as a global voting bloc. From our emerging awareness and ability to communicate, we’ll be able to organize across borders and pressure organizations like G20 and the IMF, over the things they do that affect global commerce.
Here in the States we have a great concern to have The Right to Health Care, and not just a priviledge to the Rich. Just in the last year Health cost has gone up over 5% over and abouve wages and the current economy. The main problem is this has been increasing for over 10 years to the point of over 131% just since 1999. Our Rich and for the Rich Republicans have had an agenda to destroy our Social Security, Medicare, medicade programs. Also to Stop at any cost the new Health Care provisions found in the Senate Bill’s Proposed. Before President Bush took office we had a surplus for the first time in over 40 years. Bush gave the surplus to the wealthiest 1% of the Nation, and gave unpresedented tax cuts to the Rich in order to destablize funds going into Social Security in order to take away its ability to be self supporting. Then Bush lied to America and sent us to war in a country with no terriost saying they had WMD. He did this because Sadam Hussen had threatened his father during the first Desert Storm and W had vowed he would get him back. Not only because of that the Bush family are oil tycoons, they wanted controll of all that oil. There are 6 refineries in the U.S., the Bush family owns 4 of them. They are only for the Rich.
Health Coverage, public option would cut out profit money for the Republicans and the rich whom have stocks in the Medical Companies. The working class here greatly outnumber the Rich but you see who our government has been representing. Now We have the chance to make change with President Obama, as long as the Republicans don’t cut and water down the Health Care Bill before it comes to a vote.
Welcome goodoleboy, another NPR’er aboard!
When promoting Balkingpoints on Twitter I use the following tweet – which at once sums up the need for government in the most important facets of our individual economic security, and also how the GOP is never to be trusted in those;
“R’s tried to privatize Social Security in 2005, which would have wiped out millions of retirements in market crash”
There you have it… ;^)
Thanks You Roy:
Today the news has me worried. I am sure you have heard about the Baucus Bill filled with watered down Health Care. Even the three Republicans whom helped negotiate it are now Not on board of its passage. It was designed to fail. The President tried to get a bipartisan bill that Republicans could sign on to. Republicans have turned away, even in its watered down version, so it is coming down to party division on the issue. Republican against Democrat. Since the Obama address in the Senate, public polls show a two thirds majority are for Health Care reform. The current watered down version don’t have the democratic support to pass, because the language has taken away strong change we so need. I do wish, we would go back put the PUBLIC OPTION and put strong language back in the bill and then shoot for passage. We may just have the support to do it. We aren’t going to have the far right party on board anyhow. I hope the two thirds majority remembers come the next Senate elections, let them loose their seats by the two thirds.
Thanks Roy G. and Mike Walker
dennis martin (goodoleboy) wrote:
I smell a traitor in our mist when looking at the Baucus bill, folks. Upon futher examination of Max Baucus and his contributions for election I have seen where his priorities lay concernig this bill. As you can see from my earlier post I am die hard Democrate, but what I am about to expose tells how greatly our current system needs to be fixed. Special interest groups are influencing Mr Baucus. He to may need a wake up call by the American People as to who he should represent. His top five contributors to his election fund are as stated below.
Altria Group
Schering Plough Corp
Amgen Inc.
BLUECROSS/BLUESHIELD
NEW YORK LIFE INSURANCE
He recieved nearly 14 million in donations, most coming from these top five. And I am sure they want Health Care watered down. His bill is watered down. Check it out!
We need Reform on election funds by special interest also in order for America to have her voice.
Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:53:24 AM
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Totally agree goodoleboy, and the Baucus corruption is a big part of why this is so difficult to get done in any kind of legitimate way – that will cover all Americans and control future costs. Numerous Democrats are in the pocket of the insurance lobby, as well as just about every Republican.
Which in turn is why you must have a president who gets on the mat and battles that until he or she prevails. Since Obama started it up (which he needed to), I expect him to rally the voters he needs to rally, raise the funds he needs for pro-reform ads, and twist the arms on the Hill he needs to twist for passage. Congeniality will lead to failure, and tens of millions
of Americans will continue to live under the tyranny of the present system – which cares for your medical needs according to your financial means and dumps the sick from it’s roles. The industrialized world laughs at our capacity, to be conned by these blood-money insurance companies.
Interesting as well, how little you hear from the major U.S. media about who funds the election campaigns of health reform obstructionists such as Baucus, McConnell, Boehner and the wingnuted Joe Wilson. Could it be,
that they fear that same insurance industry pulling their advertising from whatever network tells the truth on this situation?
Btw, the moderation filter initially held your post (#18) above, due to a recent spammer trying to post pharma links using a screenname of Dennis. The filter has been adjusted, and you’re good to go with that name now… :^)
Roy G:
One great thought, there should be a way the American People can rally support and pressure lawmakers into doing the right things concerning our voices. The latest polls show two thirds of the American public are all for Health Care Reform.
They should be shaking in their Senate shoes, anyway I see it. That is a winning number on election day. America’s eye’s are on them, and we do have access to how they vote, under Public Records. I foresee
major changes in our government if just everyone will use the information afforded them. Love this site.
17 September, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Roy G:
Unfortunately people go with the bandwagon, and those wagenmasters that guide the bandwagen are the ones that decide for all.
At the present as it has been in the past, the bandwagen has been guided by those wagenmasters who benefit, and have benefitted by deciding the direction that the bandwagen takes to protect their economic interests first.
The big question is, who are the wagenmasters? Answer: The corrupt politicians, the wealthy coprporations, the military industrial complex, those that control the mass-media, but surely not the majority of the American people, who are helpless to compete with this gang of renegade.
I believe that not even our hero, Mr. Obama can compete with these renegade, who have very deep roots in deciding the route that this bandwagen will take for the betterment, or the failure of the interests of the American people to obtain their free healthcare.
Sammy from Sicily
Only the squeeky wheel gets fixed.
You don’t put the weasel in the Hen house without first expecting to loose a few chickens. The same goes for politicians.
If you lose to many chickens you need to get rid of the weasel. Food for thought!
Many people see changing politics as a loosing task, and sit back and let others dictate youre destiny. People think it is to big to change its direction. Well in a Democracy such as America that cannot be further from the truth. Trouble, Trouble everywhere, where do you start. One problem one person at a time. It is sort of like being told you have to eat that elephant. For as long as you think you have to do an impossible task all in one bite, and do nothing, nothing will change.
It is only when you figure out, if you have to eat the elephant, you do it one bite at a time, that all things are possible. Much to long have American’s let others dictate their destiny, it is now that we need to unite and make the effort to do something about it one person at a time one vote at a time. Demand your servants, our politicians serve America and her peoples best intrest. Not by past Greed, but for Right and Honor. We have our vote, we put them in office, we can take them out, UNITE.
I wholeheartedly agree, this is not one we can let them slide on. I was already aware of Mr. Bauccus’s campaign contributors as NPR did a story on a fund raising cookout he held right before he began his work on the compromise bill, with his posse, I mean gang of six. It appears their solution is to REQUIRE every one carry insurance without offering a private option. If you are deemed not poor enough to be allowed to go without, you can be subject to a fine which would go into a pool to defray costs the uninsured burden the benevolent insurance companies with.
Seems to me his allegiances are clearly defined. The insurance industry gains a mandate of 30,000,000 new customers, and we still have almost no choice as always, as most areas of the country are virtual monopolies of one large corporation or another. The only good point is the elimination of pre- existing condition clauses, barring any loopholes of course as they still get to set most of the rules and costs. I’m sure they’ll keep a maximum allowable pay out though, cured or not.
We really need to get corporate money out of politics once and for all. Might I suggest a maximum contribution of $1,000 per candidate per year, per person in the country, with documentation freely accessible to any who ask for it of course. No corporate contributions of any kind should be allowed, corporations don’t vote, citizens do. You should only be allowed to contribute as a registered voter. Any violations of the policy need to be backed up with teeth, such as mandatory jail,for both donor and beneficiary. Lifetime banishment from public office for life also has a nice ring to it.
Term limitations should be revisited as well, perhaps two four year terms for all elected officials,no service again after that period. Then go out and get a real job and start contributing to society as an active member again. Live within the laws you passed, not wining and dining at taxpayers expense for as long as you can.
I really don’t like the idea they appoint all they’re cohorts to cushy positions either, but obviously, the list of complaints could fill a library in most small towns.
I’m really not hungry enough for an elephant, can we be bi-partisan and simply say every journey, no matter how long starts with one step. We all need to flood our elected officials with mail, e-mail, phone calls, sky writing, whatever it takes. Too many are suffering because of the greed of a few.
I would like to share the contents of this e-mail that was sent to me. I find it very precise.
Sammy from Sicily
HARRY TRUMAN
Harry Truman
Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made
as many important decisions regarding our nation’s history as any of the other 42 Presidents. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House.
The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence Missouri . His wife had inherited
The house from her mother and other than their years in the
White House, they lived their entire lives there.
When he retired from office in 1952, his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them,
granted him an ‘allowance’ and, later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year..
After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouri by themselves. There were no Secret Service following them.
When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, “You don’t want me. You want the office of the President,
and that doesn’t belong to me. It belongs to the American people and it’s not for sale.”
Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, “I don’t consider that I have done anything which
should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise.”
As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food.
Modern politicians have found a new level of success in cashing in on the Presidency, resulting in untold wealth. Today, many in Congress also have found a way to become quite wealthy while enjoying the fruits of their offices. Political offices are now for sale. (sic. Illinois)
Good old Harry Truman was correct when he observed, “My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a
politician. And to tell the truth, there’s hardly any difference!
I say dig him up and clone him!!
Sammy
Great story about a truly great man. Wish we could have more like him running things.
unfortunitly anymore only the wealthy have all the rungs on the lawmakers ladder.
I’m wondering if this is a slicker version of our Democratic Underground where intolerance won’t be tolerated…
You’ve got everything just about backwards.
Let me summarize.
Obama and the REPO Congress promise to
1) increase coverage
2) increase services
3) reduce costs.
Now if you can’t figure out why those promises are mutually exclusive, I can’t help you.
Further, there was a promise the elderly would not lose out. Yet Medicare and Medicade are to be cut “to help pay” for this. These two programs are relied on by the elderly…
And they are the spear point of government interference in health care in the U.S. If it’s such a good idea, why are they being eliminated again?
Oops, “medicaid…
They are not being eliminated, just gutted by a bought and paid for Mr. Bauccus, who wrote a plan to benefit his corporate donors, not to address the health care issue.
We have to realize like the rest of the world already has, that medical coverage is not a commodity, it is a basic human need, much like food and water. Placing such a need in the hands of for profit companies does not work. We need basic coverage for all, then the wealthy can feel free to choose their coverage from private insurers based on their own decisions. As it stands now the for profit side has decided to choose who they care to cover, obviously, that is the ones with the ability to pay, and the least expensive needs. Hardly a good way to assure a basic need to the masses.
Think of it as water, we all get tap water in this country. If you don’t like your tap water your free to buy Dasani or Evian. Yet in that case no one is dying of thirst as they can still get tap water if needed.
Setting up the pro-reform ad to be run on Fox News: “Let them drink tap water”… ;^)
Nice correlation there Thoreau Fan.
Fairly comical how GOP’ers whom have opposed Medicare since Progressives passed it in the ’60′s, now cite it’s protection as their reason to stop the rest of uninsured America from getting the same kind of deal. (After they lied that is, about death panels and illegal aliens, and got busted on those scare tactics… ;^)
Yet I haven’t seen a single one of them, relinquish their own Medicare coverage or future eligibility. If hippies burned their draft cards and went to jail during Vietnam, then pro-Bush obstructionists can back up their words by burning their Medicare cards & go pay 100% in their beloved private insurance market…
It’s a shame that people screaming about “slowing” down health care reform weren’t screaming before we went into Iraq. Or, perhaps, going into Iraq was their wake-up call? I read Triumphant’s Balk and have listened to this notion of “taking it slowly” and how thinkers like this say “we all know we need to reform health care” and wonder what exactly the GOP was doing while the controlled Congress and the Presidency 12 years and 8 years (6 of these years concurrently!)?
I realize that the Right hates it when the Left brings up Bush but seriously, do they think that ideas on health care reform started in January 2009? Part of the truth, in my humble opinion, may be that they can’t stand to see health care reform in the US — particularly health care reform that would include coverage for all Americans — becoming law while they are essentially out of power. That said, as I lean a bit to conservative side on fiscally, I would appreciate more in the way of information about costs and plans for realizing efficiencies.
Finally, I think the German health care model, in place now over 120 years, is an excellent one and probably closest to one envisioned by Obama…a coupling of private and public health care that offers a great depth of “choice”…
Roy G
Here are some of my latest NPR Post. For some reason they are now pulling off the articles.
Here are a few things to consider when you ask why are Republicans so vocal on some things and silent on on why. This is some of the top contributors to their elections.
R. Senator Chuck Grassley: Top 5 Contributors
$7.5 Million, DCI Group, Bluecross/Blueshield/ Amgen Inc. ,FPL Group, Xcel Energy. Top 5 Contributing Industries: Health Professionals, Insurance, Lobbyist, Lawyers/ Law Firms,and Pharmaceuticals/Health Products.
R. Senator Mike Enzi,$2.3 million Top 5 contributors: Foundation Coal, Apollo Group, Bluecross/Blueshield, Goldman Sacks, AFLAC Inc. Top 5 Industry contributors : Pharmaceuticals/Health Products, Security& Investment, Health Professionals, Insurance, Then Oil & Gas.
There are many more more interesting, But you begin to see their priorities and their patterns. This is two of the three Republicans whom helped Senator Baucus draw up the watered down Health Bill.
Roy G.
wish we could get them to run this kind of story.
NPR:
How about doing the American People a great service. How about a news item run on how each of our legislators on how they vote on Health Care Reform, and include the The top 5 Election contributors on each as well as the top 5 Industry Contributors and the amounts contributed. Run that information continously for about a month. That way the American Public can see the real truth, about those we have elected to be our voice. It would also be handy for the Public in considering our next election.
To goodoleboy,
This is a good place to start. The FEC already compiles these lists, getting the info you’re looking for takes a little workout on your mouse but the info is out there.
http://www.fec.gov/ans/answers_disclosure.shtml#who_contributed_to_my_Rep
There are tons of sites out there on the subject, they all seem to have their own particular slant or agenda, so I defer to the FEC as this is legally required info of lawmakers currently engaged in fund raising. If it was more easily accessible, would be nice, but what would be nicer still was if more Americans bothered to take the time to access these public records and exercise they’re own judgment on the issues rather than getting the watered down versions from our media.
Oh yeah, to get actual data, click on the FEC web site link in the first answer provided, you can then choose by state, then district, and then by candidate.
Thoreau Fan:
I have found one site that seems to be easier for me to use.
http://www.OpenSecrets.com
Non Partison information on
Any lawmaker or office you want information on. So far great site.
just plug in the name and pick the
election year you want to view.
sorry wrong site.
http://www.OpenSecrets.org
Welcome to B/P, Berlin1929. That is a great point about the rush to invasion of Iraq not objected to at all, by these same voices who say “slow down” on health reform. Hell, America is already 40-years slow on it by my reading…
Sammy: I hope Obama’s policy successes as he goes along, will give us reason for optimism against entrenched corporate interests that benefit from the status quo.
They wanted McCain and didn’t get him, and they wanted Bush 1 when ordinary Americans overrode that for Bill Clinton. From the abolition of slavery to woman’s right to vote, from child labor laws and 40-hour work weeks, minimum wage and retirement security, guaranteed civil rights by gender, ethnicity, age and infirmity – America has always met these social crossroads and made the choice for social progress, instead of a broken status quo…
Thoreau Fan / goodoleboy: Knowledge is power (or, is supposed to be… ;^)
The campaign financing websites are the place to start – follow the money to the truth. We have to dig it up and elevate it manually, since the major media keeps it all hush-hush. Darn that “liberal” media… ;^)
According to the T.R. Reid article cited above, UK is characterised as the closet to socialized medicine. Government hospitals and doctors. Yet as Michael Moore tried to tell Americans in his movie “Sicko”, Brits are delighted generally with our system.
And as the chart above shows, we’ve come in at nearly the lowest costs per capita. Americans are being misled by their media about ours and other well working national systems.
Well, big surprise today, seems Mr. Baucus is loyally following the interests of his campaign contributors and not the people he supposedly represents. This is actually bothering me much more than politics usually does, and that says a lot.
The flagrant disregard he shows toward the best interests of the American people simply astounds me ! Perhaps it’s the fact that this issue affects so many, the least able to defend themselves the most, that it is morally reprehensible !
I am truly ashamed of my country and it’s politics, we got rid of the most ineffectual president, possibly of all time, only to be thrown to the wolves by the brazen arrogance of such openly bought and paid for politicos as Mr. Baucus. Truly a sad day for the American people.
I hate to say it but, we need another revolution.
Excuse me for ranting, my only defense is that I truly believed that for once, with an elected mandate such as the Democrats got in the last election, we actually might see some beneficial reform that would actually help the average American.
Can we apply for “medical asylum” to any of the more CIVILISED countries ?
Baucus might as well be a Republican, as beholdened as he is to the wealthy – in this case the very wealthy insurance lobby. Fortunately his Senate Finance Committee is the one caving in the most, of the 5 proposals working through Congress.
Even if his bill becomes law unaltered, uninsured Americans would get subsidized according to means, to go buy policies from the insurance sharks. And they supposedly cannot exclude on pre-existing illness or cancel you after you get too sick.
Which gets the foot in the door, on an item of mass social deprivation which has gone on for decades. From there future Congresses can realize what a giveaway they handed insurers, and rework the thing into a far more efficient single-payer model.
At least I hold out some hope of that result. Meanwhile, active political bloggers will keep spotlighting the campaign-donor corruptions of most of Capitol Hill – we know Media Inc. won’t do it. Besides, I haven’t got a musket… ;^)
Canada accepts all disgruntled Americans, Thoreau Fan ! You must sign a pact at the border agreeing to not complain about any cold weather!
In reality there was a big increase in the number of applications from the United States, right after George Bush was reelected in 2004. If they were to get back into power I’d expect it will go through the ceiling again.
Thanks Pat,always good to have civilized neighbors, even if our elected officials aren’t. I’m originally from New England so the weather shouldn’t be too much of a shock, and Roy, it can’t be that hard to get firearms in this country, the Repubs at least make sure of that, lol.
I’ve since calmed a bit, forgot that letting the “fools that rule” bother you is kind of counter productive. As things are progressing I’m sort of hopeful for a last minute amendment for the public option to sneak in, as there still seems to be support for it. As history teaches Baucus and cohorts can’t stop progress forever. Would like to see our President way in a little more on it though, also I hear congrats are in order to him for the Nobel Peace Prize. As surprising as it seems, perhaps “W’s” enduring legacy will be based on the fact that he was so bad that Mr. Obama wins a Nobel prize for just starting to behave like an actual President, before actually gaining any hard concessions toward peace !
Welcome back Thoreau Fan. I also believe that Obama winning the Nobel on overtures alone, is a sharp reflection on the disdain held in the world for the Bush model of world relations. They seem to be awarding the change in approach itself.
Others have suggested it represents pro-active pressure, for Obama to now earn the Peace Prize and not sink back into the same patterns as other American presidents, which have often resulted in misuse of military power.
That being said, Obama inherited from Bush protracted wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is not able to just flip the off switch. It is up to him to find the very difficult pathways, to keep pressure on gihadists whom will strike at innocents around the world again, but also eliminate U.S. military presence where it should never have been placed by his predecessors.
The U.S. House has narrowly passed it’s version of health reform, and the Senate on Saturday just passed a procedural vote (60 of 100 Senators required) to begin debate on it’s bill.
The Senate vote is a shocking display of how beholden the corrupt GOP is, to the health insurance industry. Not a single Republican voted with the 60 majority to even begin debate.
Secure in their own government-subsidized health insurance, the Republicans are marching in lock-step exactly as they did during the
failed Bush Regime. They have absolutely no idea what it is to work for a subsistence wage, unable to access routine medical care & always be one illness away from financial ruin.
100 million Americans – 1/3rd of their countrymen – are un or underinsured and in that exact position. While they kick and scream in obstruction of
this direly needed social progress, and flail around with scare tactics like “socialism” and red herrings like “tort reform”. The Republicans are perfectly content to let this barbaric, only-in-America conditon continue,
so that their corrupt masters at insurers like Cigna, United HC, Humana
and Aetna – can go right on making massive profits by insuring only the
well and excluding the sick (well documented fact on B/P).
Clinging like a wounded bear to the failed free-market health care system which they have forced down the throat of the American people since the Truman administration, the GOP has zero credibility by now on this matter.